Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

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Wuyang
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Wuyang » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:39 pm

AE86 wrote:
Capitano wrote:
As far as I know its a non-Cub-derivative CVT motor. No relation to the Wave excepting that it is made by Honda.
Correct, it is the next gen version that replaced the GY6. Auto belt driven CVT, separate motor from transmission.

Wuyang wrote:If it's a long slight incline and its revs are up its no problem, but if it's a slightly steeper hill and its revs drop your screwed...factor wind into this and your really screwed!

Over the Pennines it was great on the way back, but it held its revs so it wasn't a problem,,,,,,it really surprised me, I was impressed....always fancied one, but we went over to Holmfirth yesterday I was doubled over with laughter as my cub sailed past on several occasions.......can't see there been anything wrong with it as its like new, serviced and rides lovely apart from hills.......Honda has surprised me there.
It has to do with the CVT weighting. It's not a "smart" automatic which can kick down when needed, so if you drop below a certain rpm there's no way for the motor to "shift up". The stock spring keeps keeps the bike around 5,000-5,500 rpm at full tilt until the variator maxes out around 45 mph, which then it can spin up to top speed, which is about 70 mph with a new belt and weights.

If there's a lot of hill riding then a heavier spring needs to be installed on the rear clutch so it keeps the engine in a shorter ratio for longer. Installing lighter roller weights will also aid it in spinning up faster.
Thanks for taking the time to explain.....brilliant

Wuyang
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Wuyang » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:47 pm

Capitano wrote:
AE86 wrote: It has to do with the CVT weighting. It's not a "smart" automatic which can kick down when needed, so if you drop below a certain rpm there's no way for the motor to "shift up". The stock spring keeps keeps the bike around 5,000-5,500 rpm at full tilt until the variator maxes out around 45 mph, which then it can spin up to top speed, which is about 70 mph with a new belt and weights.

If there's a lot of hill riding then a heavier spring needs to be installed on the rear clutch so it keeps the engine in a shorter ratio for longer. Installing lighter roller weights will also aid it in spinning up faster.
^^ This from AE86 explains it better than I could. Different weights WILL help.



This is probably why Richie's Vision keeps up on hills. He's been riding small autos for donkeys' years and knows what he's doing with 'em.
I'm afraid no matter how much experience of riding a small auto it ain't going to make any difference on the hills we encounter, steep no run up. Like Richie says changing your route is what you have to do......because its slow if the revs ain't there from the off.

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Capitano
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Capitano » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:53 pm

Wuyang wrote:
Capitano wrote:
AE86 wrote: It has to do with the CVT weighting. It's not a "smart" automatic which can kick down when needed, so if you drop below a certain rpm there's no way for the motor to "shift up". The stock spring keeps keeps the bike around 5,000-5,500 rpm at full tilt until the variator maxes out around 45 mph, which then it can spin up to top speed, which is about 70 mph with a new belt and weights.

If there's a lot of hill riding then a heavier spring needs to be installed on the rear clutch so it keeps the engine in a shorter ratio for longer. Installing lighter roller weights will also aid it in spinning up faster.
^^ This from AE86 explains it better than I could. Different weights WILL help.



This is probably why Richie's Vision keeps up on hills. He's been riding small autos for donkeys' years and knows what he's doing with 'em.
I'm afraid no matter how much experience of riding a small auto it ain't going to make any difference on the hills we encounter,
Yes it will.

I used to visit Sheffield regularly (I lived near Worksop) so I know that hills around Kent, Surrey and Sussex are just the same.

Momentum is important, as you rightly say, but it isn't the only thing with a CVT transmission.

It comes down to throttle technique and keeping the belt/variator/rollers/clutch at the optimum levels to make progress.

Wuyang
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Wuyang » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:11 pm

Capitano wrote:
Wuyang wrote:
Capitano wrote:
AE86 wrote: It has to do with the CVT weighting. It's not a "smart" automatic which can kick down when needed, so if you drop below a certain rpm there's no way for the motor to "shift up". The stock spring keeps keeps the bike around 5,000-5,500 rpm at full tilt until the variator maxes out around 45 mph, which then it can spin up to top speed, which is about 70 mph with a new belt and weights.

If there's a lot of hill riding then a heavier spring needs to be installed on the rear clutch so it keeps the engine in a shorter ratio for longer. Installing lighter roller weights will also aid it in spinning up faster.
^^ This from AE86 explains it better than I could. Different weights WILL help.



This is probably why Richie's Vision keeps up on hills. He's been riding small autos for donkeys' years and knows what he's doing with 'em.
I'm afraid no matter how much experience of riding a small auto it ain't going to make any difference on the hills we encounter,
Yes it will.

I used to visit Sheffield regularly (I lived near Worksop) so I know that hills around Kent, Surrey and Sussex are just the same.

Momentum is important, as you rightly say, but it isn't the only thing with a CVT transmission.

It comes down to throttle technique and keeping the belt/variator/rollers/clutch at the optimum levels to make progress.
Have you ridden one? Why do you think Richie altered his route?
Nope on steep hills no run up your really really really screwed

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Capitano
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Capitano » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:29 pm

Wuyang wrote: Have you ridden one? Why do you think Richie altered his route?
Nope on steep hills no run up your really really really screwed
No, but I regularly ride an auto scooter of less than half that capacity up hills like the Bostal or Ditchling Beacon from a standing start. The Bostal starts on a junction with an acute junction so you have no chance of a run up.

Seriously, it's possible, but it is easy to get it wrong. The biggest problem you'll face on any small capacity bike, whether geared or CVT is getting stuck behind someone who can't climb hills!

I've lost my breakfast on the Bostal on my bicycle having to overtake a couple of cars that were grinding gears and stopping every few yards.

Wuyang
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Wuyang » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:34 pm

Capitano wrote:
Wuyang wrote: Have you ridden one? Why do you think Richie altered his route?
Nope on steep hills no run up your really really really screwed
No, but I regularly ride an auto scooter of less than half that capacity up hills like the Bostal or Ditchling Beacon from a standing start. The Bostal starts on a junction with an acute junction so you have no chance of a run up.

Seriously, it's possible, but it is easy to get it wrong. The biggest problem you'll face on any small capacity bike, whether geared or CVT is getting stuck behind someone who can't climb hills!

I've lost my breakfast on the Bostal on my bicycle having to overtake a couple of cars that were grinding gears and stopping every few yards.
Your been very helpful and I thank you for that....but no, my friend has owned several autos, I've had my fair share, his son's had a few 50's and now a Honda @125..... Trust me........ It's poor up hills when you can't get the revs up,,,, No amount of throttle teasing is going to make the vision 110 go better up hills than what we got out of it.....it dropped below 20 mph at one point!

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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Capitano » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:42 pm

Wuyang wrote:
Capitano wrote:
Wuyang wrote: Have you ridden one? Why do you think Richie altered his route?
Nope on steep hills no run up your really really really screwed
No, but I regularly ride an auto scooter of less than half that capacity up hills like the Bostal or Ditchling Beacon from a standing start. The Bostal starts on a junction with an acute junction so you have no chance of a run up.

Seriously, it's possible, but it is easy to get it wrong. The biggest problem you'll face on any small capacity bike, whether geared or CVT is getting stuck behind someone who can't climb hills!

I've lost my breakfast on the Bostal on my bicycle having to overtake a couple of cars that were grinding gears and stopping every few yards.
Your been very helpful and I thank you for that....but no, my friend has owned several autos, I've had my fair share, his son's had a few 50's and now a Honda @125..... Trust me........ It's poor up hills when you can't get the revs up,,,, No amount of throttle teasing is going to make the vision 110 go better up hills than what we got out of it.....it dropped below 20 mph at one point!
I'll have to ride one but it sounds like it could do with some fettling of roller weights or possibly a variator swap. I wonder if they do a variator like a J Costa for it? I expect Polini do one as they seem to do one for every CVT scooter around.

Father Paul
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Father Paul » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:09 am

Thanks for all this chaps. As wuyang rightly states my vision is incredibly bad on inclines. My sons zip 50 4t was amazingly superior and did 30 mph everywhere.

I was shocked on the spin the other night. It was probably the worst bike I've ever had on the hills. Literally 18 mph in some places.

On flat it was impressive reaching 62 mph. Great in town and nipping to shops. That's why it's so popular in London etc.

I have 25 + years on every kind of bike. Sorry mr Honda it's a no from me.

Throttle technique. Lol. Don't think so.

It's up for sale

Father Paul
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by Father Paul » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:12 am

Soon to be the proud owner of my second Honda sh300i.

This is the best scooter on the planet.

I love little bikes and expected so much more from the 110cc vision.

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AE86
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Re: Honda vision 110cc up hill speed

Post by AE86 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:12 am

The Vision is likely "geared" very tall for "saving the earth" reasons, but there are plenty of aftermarket rollers, clutch springs etc for them as all three 110 incarnations of the motor are literally everywhere in SE Asia. If you have the magneto starter it is the same as the Zoomer X, Click & Lead 110, and if you have the Bendix starter type it is the same as the Scoopy, Spacy, BeAT, etc, and if you have the water cooled version it's found in the Airblade. Although there's so many versions available annoyingly, they all have massive amounts of parts available for the CVT since those are also maintenance items.

However my personal opinion is that I don't really like the 110 Autos in any incarnation that much except the water cooled magneto starter version. Very thin engine, borderline engineered parts, and often lacking in serviceable friendliness. No oil filter on a lot of them is honestly a bit of a let down too.

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